What on earth has sponsor designation got to do with the price of fish?🤣

Yeah but it trickles down to the second or third tier of the commercial and chancery bar. I know first and second year tenants grossing comfortably more than £250k and then just rockets for anyone half decent. Many members at my place between 5-10 years grossing well in excess of £500k

It’s not a word so hard to find a definition but Cambridge dictionary says “talk down to someone” means “to talk to someone as if they are less intelligent than you or not important”. I don’t think relative wealth comes into it unless he is placing importance on wealth, which seems to be the opposite of what he’s saying.

In any event, I think everyone is pretty harsh on Alan. He worked at A&O until 2012 when PEP was significantly lower than today (even if adjusted for inflation). The market was also significantly different – Alan worked at the same firm for 27 years which in 2012 would be considered unremarkable. Sponsor designation was in its infancy and not the norm for corporate finance.

Contrast this with today where partners move for guaranteed payouts like footballers, the approach on designated work is essentially to avoid raising comments unless you will be found negligent, where junior lawyers earn more than bankers etc.

Sure, no one chooses law without thinking “I might get paid quite well”, similar to how doctors used to think (when they got paid quite well…). That does not mean your focus should be weighted to earning money as opposed to your professional obligations. There’s a reason people look askance at ambulance chasers – why should the unease with their ethics change when the solicitor is in the square mile?

I assume you’re referring to OEC. That figure is pre deductions (tax, chamber costs, etc), though is very high still. In any case, they really can’t be compared. It is expected in those chambers you have an absolutely stellar undergrad (think prize winning, or at the very least a first, from the likes of Oxbridge) and an equally compelling masters (BCL/Harvard LLM are common). That is of course before other experience, with many first working as lecturers in other universities. They make Kirkland and P,W look small because they take people who are intellectually brilliant enough to have made partner at those firms if they wanted it. They are not taking bog standard trainees.

Compared to solicitors there are a vanishingly small number of top, top barristers making these sums. It’s not really relevant to compare.

Makes likes of K&E and PW small in comparison lol

But why is the pay so much?

muricans invading are country god save are queen

In my local (non-London) market, partnership in commercial firms takes circa 10+ years and may not come at all. The cohort which is now begrudgingly turning its mind to succession and retirement planning were the same cohort which enjoyed relatively low cost housing (even if interest rates were all over the place, the assets and the repayment on them were hardly unaffordable for lawyers at the time) and relatively quick progression to partnership (less than 8 years doesn’t have appeared unusual, and no that isn’t the same partnership that US Shops hand out like sweets).

Is it any wonder those qualifying are less likely than their predecessors to aim for partnership?

Why, of course I would like to turn comments every weekend for less money, why didn’t I think of that sooner.

Now it is all about salaries. I suppose we all need somebody to lean on.

“you care too much about money” whilst having earned 10-20x what the best paid associates earn, is, by definition, talking down

Hm, I get where you’re coming from. As a current applicant with a couple internships and vac schemes under my belt I have felt existential about the culture. Especially coming from a minority and low income background in the midlands.

However, I can’t help but agree. From meeting a diverse range of candidates, successful and unsuccessful, I’ve recognised how little everyone cares to genuinely be there. Myself included.

Money, prestige, and insecurity are the biggest reasons as to why seniors choose to stay forever (like him), why associates struggle to value themselves in creating healthy boundaries, and worst of all why aspiring candidates perceive “Big Law” as the key to solving their issues and securing their financial dreams.

“Elistism” and exclusivity in work, education, and culture is not a sign that you should strive to be there. I think people should have more common sense and self worth to recognise what benefits their well being. What is truly ideal is subjective, and you shouldn’t have to drink the kool aid to convince yourself that you should give up a significant part of your life.

Huge stones being thrown from that (probably quite sizeable!) glass house there, Alan.